Wednesday, April 12, 2006

Punks and Girly-Girls vs. Sloppy Dressers, Hot Topic and The GAP

I received numerous comments about the punk rock show the other day, with one comment in particular comparing the punk movement in Russia to the commercialized punk image sold at stores like Hot Topic. I also received an email from my friend C (which, sadly, I accidentally deleted) in reference to the notion of Punks in Russia. His comment was that perhaps Russian "punks" are simply the sloppily-dressed kids, as opposed to those who put time and care into their appearance.

I suppose now would be a good time to remind everyone first off that I am not one of those people who takes photos of people she doesn't know, no matter how interesting looking or otherwise photogenic they might be. I wish I could do this, but every time I see someone I don't know, but whom I would love to photograph, I get all shy. I can't bring myself to just snap a picture and hope they don't yell at me (seriously, what would you do if some random person you didn't know started photographing you?). Of course, the other way to deal with this type of scenario is to simply ask for permission to take the photo... but that leads us into the whole issue I have with talking to people I don't know. What issue? Well, I don't talk to people I don't know. Yes, I'm a bit of a nut-ball, but that's just way the cookie crumbles and the genes align.

That being said, let's return to the punk rock show. The only clear-shot I got of anyone was the shot of Elena and Nika (re-posted below), who are the students G and I had accompanied to the show. We know them, we're friends with them, and I don't mind asking them to pose for a picture. Based on appearance alone, these two girls are highly unusual for Russian teenage females. They're wearing very little makeup (Nika might not be wearing any), they haven't fixed their hair, they're wearing plain, simple shirts. (You can't see the homemade Sex Pistols tags and other punkish stuff that Elena in particular has used to decorate her pants and her backpack.) Now, in the States, no one would give these two a second glance. They're just normal teenagers. But in Russia, this isn't just a case of being a little sloppily dressed, this is a huge statement.


As I mentioned above, I don't take pics of people I don't know, and to be honest, the only Russian chic I spend much of my free time with is L, and she's totally an exception to every norm possible (this is meant as a compliment), and as such she doesn't make for a good example of your typical Russian female. I found a pic from last semester of me with Natasha, one of my former students (posted below). I think you'll get the point, although even she isn't as dolled up as many Russian ladies frequently are. (I am *so* dumpy and unattractive next to this girl!)


Russian women are hot. And damn sexy. And no, it isn't because we American ladies are fat, ugly lard balls (as certain people have told me). Granted a lot of it is nature (who'd-a-thunk this frigid weather would breed such beauties?), but a lot of it is the packaging. Russian females spend a lot of time on their appearance: Dyeing and styling their hair, appliying make-up, squeezing into impossibly tight and often highly revealing clothes, and finally slipping into ridiculous spiked heels that make my new boots look tame by comparison. Now don't get me wrong; I don't disapprove of this style (and I've bought a lot of really cool clothes here). I do, however, think the pressure to dress as a hyper-feminine sex-pot might be a bit too strong. I know there's been a lot of talk in the media in the States in recent years about teens dressing "too sexy" - let's just say it's nothing like they do here.

But back to Elena and Nika. They have chosen to be different. Even though the picture of them doesn't show them to be all that different from the average American teen, they are vastly different from average Russian girls their age. As a result, they are shunned and mistreated by their peers (G and I have witnessed this in their classes at the AH), and by strangers on the street (I witnessed this the other day). They have chosen the punk music scene as an outlet for their difference, and as a place where they fit in. This is far more punk, more defiant, than strolling down to Hot Topic and buying a commercial, pre-packaged, punk image.

Sorry, this post is kinda rambling and jumping all over the place, but.... back to the way most Russian women dress, and why most American women don't dress that way. My co-workers and I have talked about this a lot. For one thing (and men - you might not be aware of the following, but it's true), in the US, there's a lot of value attached to the idea of "natural beauty" - you might dye your hair, apply a ton of makeup and wear a push-up bra, but the end result is such that you look "naturally beautiful." The idea is for people to think your hair is naturally that color, you boobs are naturally that big and your face is naturally fresh and makeupless. Of course, people who do things like dye their hair pink or purple or black or wear funky makeup and whatnot are not (usually) shunned, they're not considered by, shall we say, fashion mags, to be beautiful. In the US, there's also this idea of "dressing your age." My mom often tells me that I shouldn't dress quite so much like a teenager. She has also been known to make derisive comments about women above a certain age who sport what she considers to be a "young" woman's hairdo. Of course, considering how short my mom's skirts always are.... ;-)

Anyway, in Russia, it's pretty much the opposite. It seems that most women dye their hair. How do I know this? Well (aside from the rootlines...) they dye their hair all sorts of colors. Black. Purple. Blue. Red. Colors that are blatantly fake. And the idea of makeup isn't "natural beauty" it seems instead to be the "Look! I'm wearing makeup! Therefore I'm pretty!" concept. Women of all ages (well, until they become the mythical babushka) dress all sexpot. It's nothing unusual to see middle aged women in short skirts, tight, see-through shirts, and knee-high leather boots on stiletto heels.

Let's take shopping in Russia. Dobryak, the biggest warehouse/market/shopping center in Vladimir, is filled to the brim with clothes. I love shopping there, even though I continually come out of there with things I don't need. Clothes in Dobryak tend to fall into two different categories: Sexpot or Babushka. Meanwhile, US malls are littered with the GAP and GAP knock-offs.
Is there a point to this post? Probably not. I don't dress like typical-anything anyway. But it's interesting to think about.

17 comments:

Megan Case said...

You're too diplomatic. Russian women's fashion makes me want to throw up. I've spent a lot of time in Russia now, tried to be nice about it, but I don't care anymore. Most of the women I see on the metro every day look trashy. 'Course, I can't stand how most Americans dress anymore either. But I miss the GAP. :-)

Yeah, when I was shopping for boots last year I had a serious problem with the prostitute/babushka split in women's clothes. I wind up spending too much money in Western European brand shops like Ecco as a result.

Anonymous said...

I don't think you're too diplomatic. That's a pretty accurate description of how things stand with fashion here.

Just felt compelled to point out that I went through a punk-ish phase when I was in the States. That involved sticking safety pins virutally everywhere. Then I decided the goths at my school looked pretty, so I started wearing all black. The thing is, while going through those stages I listened to stuff like...Pink Floyd. I never actually listened to punk (except that brief infatuation with The Offspring because a guy I had a crush on liked them...) or whatever it is goths listen to. So it *was* rebellion, albeit kinda lopsided and strange. I think the urge to dress "alternatively" is common among 15-16-year-olds in the States. Over here, I see 19-year-olds who have only just realized they'd like to rebel and wear different clothes. Only it looks kinda ridiculous when you're 19, cause that's when you're supposed to have passed all those odd stages and found yourself. (Not that everyone does.) But as you've pointed out, Elena and Nika are still mistreated, although it's perfectly normal to want to rebel at 16. And since it's uncommon to do even that here, their rebellion is much more meaningful.

But this is Vladimir. I'm sure Moscow is swarming with alternatively-dressed pseudo-punk kids. You've seen what authentic punks looks like; we have a lot of them here. Back to Moscow. Another alternative lifestyle/subculture (bleh! subculture my ass...) that's very popular is R'n'B. Its followers are stupid kids of rich parents who dance their life away at nightclubs every night of the week. On the plus side, they don't do drugs as they want to "stay beautiful!"

Also, ever heard of the reggae band 5'nizza? I don't know if it was them who started the whole rasta-trend in Moscow, but that's definitely huge at the moment. These kids are high most of the time, but also harmless. And happy.

I'm done rambling!

Unknown said...

I think alot of the Russian style of dressing is some sense of personal pride in appearence. Many people may not have lots of extra money to spend, but by god, what wealth they have is going to be shown and worn. Also, taking care of those clothes is rather more important than in the US. In the US, we are all about dressing cheaply and for comfort. In Russia, it is keeping appearences, to look your best, appear dignified, etc.

They also take the fashion magazine and movie appearences ... quite a bit more literally than we do in the US.

I've heard the appearence of Russian women described as being too "Fredricks of Hollywood". I think that is not a bad description, but I've also noticed over the last few years a sort of toning down of styles.

I think there is also an issue of women in the workplace here in the US wanting to be judged not for their appearence but for their work merits. Russian women that I have talked to on this topic consider it naive, and can't see the problem with wearing a short skirt and very high heels to work.

There is also a strong element of conformance and alienation regarding appearence here in the US. Yana is a friend of mine who lived in Moscow until July 2003 when her family moved to the US (long story). She isn't really a short skirt sort of girl, and she doesn't reveal much, but she definitely wears rather tight clothes and has a very slender and attractive figure. She doesn't wear jeans to work and has rather nice clothes actually. She even wears "sensible" heels. She isn't big into makeup either, just the typical mascara and some concealer for her eyes, etc.

Still, she gets checked out by American men quite alot (I've seen the heads on swivels as she walks by) and gets ugly looks and catty remarks from American women (as you might imagine). I've seen it get very ugly, actually. But the difference in what she is wearing vs. American women is really pretty small - her clothes are tighter and she is always dressing up. And still she gets noticed and singled-out for ugly treatment by American women. It is as if they won't accept her and feel she is setting a bad example until she gains 20 lbs and starts wearing baggy pants, sneakers, and a t-shirt.

As a last note - the Russians I have known are crazy about ironing and can't understand why I don't iron most of my clothes.

Anonymous said...

This reason behind such cultural phenomena are both very complicated and simple. Russians are collectivists and non-comformists. Americans - individualists and comformists. It means that for Russians socializing means a lot and it's necessary to give right signals to people you want to socialize with. Clothes and makeup is obvious. Megan thinks Russian women look trashy. That's only partly correct: some look trashy, some punky, some intellectual, some gorgeous, etc. etc. It all depends what you signal. When you look trashy means you want trashy (in sociological sense) guys and gals make contact with you. When you look gorgeous (in the right sense) you signal "Guys who don't drive BMW 700 better stay out". I'm confident Jane and Megan being dressed as they are attract the right kind of people who think "Hey, we're are similar". On the other hand in the US everyone dresses alike. It often seems as if Americans wear uniforms: sloppy and formless shorts, T-shirts and ugly sneakers. The only way you read a person by the attire is by reading signs on T-shirts. Not very convenient and too often misleading.

Anonymous said...

Jane, write more rants and ramblings. They are much better then your seriuos posts.

Unknown said...

Andrei - have you ever been to the US? I get the feeling you are writing from movies or something you were told once by a friend of a friend who went to the US. :-) The phenomenon that you speak about, dressing for your social peers is very well known here, of course. You dress the part. Not everyone in the US is dressing the same. The only time I can picture myself or anyone I know dressing the way you describe is when I am working on my car or cleaning house.

But there are certain norms, where the Russian sense of fashion appears to stand out in comparison. Russian girls is that they dress like they dont have any money and "that makes them original, different and at same time they can show that they hate everybody". Those are the same signals that American and UK punks would send, but they have to dress much more outrageously to get there. These two Russian girls just look like sloppily dressed college girls to me (US standards).

Katja also adds ... she spent 5 years in a University where there were only 14 guys and 300 girls ... and when these punk girls get a little bit of money, they'll dress better. "Trust me" she says.

Unknown said...

By the way Jane, I would say that you dress like a typical funky American chick. Color choices, glasses, hair-style, etc.

Unknown said...

Katja and I are still jawing about this topic. I should also mention that Anorexia-phobia has become part of the American culture. God forbid that a parent should tell a daughter in public not to have another cookie, or to skip that 2nd ham sandwich. People will look at you like you just beat her with a leather belt.

Mary said...

Interesting post. I notice the clothes on the great looking Russian gals who some of the local engineers here have married via Internet dating. And the shoes are awesome.

hmmm - no comments on your mom's short skirts!

Anonymous said...

Nika has a striking resemblance to a young Janice Joplin. A very attractive young woman.

I wonder about all of the young women here in the states getting all of those tattoos. Young people do things to be different. But when they all do it, they run the risk of all being the same, and those who don't try the new look become different by doing nothing.

BTW I think you look hot Jane! You hold your own next to anyone. You also have a great blog.

Anonymous said...

Some of the great unmentionables in Russia - inequality between men and women (there are still not that many biznisswomen in Russia), patriarchical society, the competition for good quality men, a society which tends to marry young, young women who often can't afford to leave home before they marry - many of these factors can contribute to Russia's girls wanting to enhance their already tremendous beauty for one reason or another...

annie said...

Wow. This sparked a lot of commentary. I'll try to reply to everyone.

Megan - I wouldn't describe the way Russian women dress as trashy. True, women who dress like a typical Russian lady in the States would probably receive some stares, whistles, or snarky comments... but that's simply because our general fashion sense is different. Here it's not trashiness, it's simply the norm.

Layla, you are awesome.

W. Shedd - with regards to women in the workplace... I agree, that in the States, women want to receive credit for their *work* as opposed to their appearance, leading to a very conservative dresscode for women in the workplace. When I was teaching classes at VEMZ, I was amazed at the things my female students (all in upper management) wore. One incredibly busty woman frequently wore a see-thru lace top and the tiniest of bras... No one thought anything of it at all. Once, part of the lesson involved, "What kind of clothes should/shouldn't you wear to work?" My VEMZ students thought this was the most pointless discussion ever!

Andrei - it's interesting that you see the Russian style of dress as non-conformist and the American style as non-conformist, when I see it as the other way around! While Americans do tend to prefer "formless" (read: comfortable) clothes, I don't think we all look the same. It is simply that our available styles are different than the available styles here. And I'll try to rant-n-ramble more.

Don - I have noticed that a lot of my students have tatoos on their lower backs (a popular spot for tatoos in the States too). I don't think this is quite as popular in Russia as it is at home, but it's definitely a growing trend. And thanks for the compliment :-)

Anonymous - Did you read my post about my conversation class discussion on feminism? You might find that interesting.

Unknown said...

You don't want to know that the "tattoo on the lower back" is currently called in American slang ...

Actually Jane you probably have already heard that term, it isn't that new ..

Anonymous said...

This is definitely an issue of cultural difference and it's not just USA vs Russia, it's North America vs Europe.

Prudish, puritanical N. America (founded by, yeah, the Puritans)likes to "punish" women for being feminine, for being attractive, for being sexual, because women aren't allowed to be sexual in American society. It's "bad," it's "trashy," it's a DOUBLE STANDARD and most women are so conned that they not only swallow it, they help enforce it! It's the same double standard that makes women "Ho's" but men "Studs" for sleeping with who they want, when they want.

In addition to that, North America seems to praise you for being dowdy and not caring about how you look--it's good to not "waste time" on improving your appearance, and you don't want to seem "shallow," do you?

I hear friends of mine talk about this or that social engagement or event that they refuse to attend because they might have to *gasp* "dress up for it."

(PS I'm American, born and raised, but I've been to Russia a few times.)

annie said...

Hi Julia -

I remember as far back as high school talking about the ho's/studs double standard... although it's one of those things that while many people are aware of, this awareness doesn't seem to change the perception (at least not in the eyes of the masses). I wonder why? (Of course, even as I write, I realize that the friends of mine with whom I had these discussions back in the day are probably some of the few American women I know who think that whole notion of being chaste and modest is bunk...)

I myself definitely fall in the middle between the Russian Devushka and the Average American Woman. On the one hand, I *like* to look nice, I *like* to dress up, and I wear dresses a *lot* (this always bugs the hell out of my mother when I visit: "Jane, why can't you put on something practical?"). However, I wear very little makeup, and I gave up on trying to fix my hair a little over 10 years ago. I also value personal comfort over appearance to the point that I'm never going to squish my ass into the painted-on jeans that are so popular here (how does a person *sit* in those things?).

Back in the States, this has earned me plenty of compliments, as well as thinly-veiled (or not so...) criticisms and the occasional lewd remark... And of course, by Russian standards, I dress quite sloppily...

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